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The Patrick Hamilton Appreciation Society discussion

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message 1: by Nigeyb (last edited Jan 31, 2014 03:33AM) (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
Here's something you can take or leave as you see fit.

Basically, and by way of celebrating the weekend's imminent arrival, choose five tunes that you feel inspired to share. If you want you can say a bit about some or all of them you can, or alternatively just type up a list.

I sometimes (well today was the second time ever) put a list on my World Of Joy Tumblr page. Here's today's selection...



Have a wonderful weekend my Hamiltonian chums.


message 2: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 111 comments OK, I have a go! I've stayed with a Glam Rock theme:

1. Sensational Alex Harvey Band - Delilah
2. Sweet - Love is Like Oxygen
3. T Rex - Dandy in the Underworld
4. David Bowie - Five Years
5. Slade - Everyday

Notes:

1. I saw SAHB as a support to Thin Lizzy - SAHB were better!
2. I always thought Sweet were a very underrated band and their music still stands up well now.
3. I've still got a soft spot for Mark Bolan and his lyrics are amazing!
4. I think David Bowie started the whole thing off didn't he!
5. This track shows that Noddy Holder didn't always have to shout to be heard!


message 3: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
^ Wow. Thanks Sarah. That's the cockles of my heart well and truly warmed.


Most people give Bolan the nod when it comes to being the originator, but as with all things there were lots of disparate influences. Slade claim they were dressing up independently of Marc Bolan. Bowie was being influenced by the cast of Pork (all part of the Warhol scene) when they were in London and probably was a way down the road to Ziggy at around the same time. The Stones weren't averse to a bit of make up, nor - for that matter - was Little Richard. One thing's for sure, Bolan was the first to go on TOTP with glitter on his face, and that seems to be the moment when the movement kicked off in earnest.

Now then I feel compelled to point out that this is not a strictly Glam Zone. Far from it. Opera, C&W, Folk, Classical, Gospel, Blues, Bubblegum, Dubstep... everything is welcome.


message 4: by Val (last edited Jan 31, 2014 08:11AM) (new)

Val London through the decades (not Glam Rock):
"Waterloo Sunset" (The Kinks, 1960s)
"London Calling" (The Clash, 1970s)
"West End Girls" (Pet Shop Boys, 1980s) or "Electric Avenue" (Eddy Grant, 1980s)
"Parklife" (Blur, 1990s)
"Time for Heroes" (The Libertines, 2000s)
I wanted to use the wonderfully titled "London Beckoned Songs About Money Written by Machines" for this decade, but it was first released too early although I only heard it later, so I will leave the list there.


message 5: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
^ Splendid selections Val and impressively themed. All personal faves too. "Waterloo Sunset" being perhaps the ultimate London song for me. There's a bit of Terry and Julie in all of us.


message 6: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 111 comments That's a great list, Val! There's nothing like a good themed list is there :-)


message 7: by Val (new)

Val I have versions of all those somewhere in my music collection (and none of them are illegal downloads).
Apart from "The Kinks", I have seen all the bands perform them live as well.


message 8: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
Seen them all live (except The Kinks)? Very impressive Val.

I've only seen The Clash out of your wonderful selections. I would love to have seen The Kinks. By the time I woke up to their genius the Davies brothers were no longer on speaking terms. There are rumours of a 50th Anniversary reunion though not sure how that would be in reality. Last year I started to explore some of their late 70s albums - there's still plenty to enjoy there.


message 9: by Val (new)

Val Nigeyb wrote: "I would love to have seen The Kinks. By the time I woke up to their genius the Davies brothers were no longer on speaking terms."
Same here.

"There are rumours of a 50th Anniversary reunion though not sure how that would be in reality."
See you there, if it happens.


message 10: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 111 comments I would love to have seen the Kinks too. I bought a 'best of' album last year after seeing a couple of programmes about them, which is packed with great tracks. The social comment in their songs is spot on - they seem to be able to celebrate English culture and lifestyle at the same time as poking fun at it and pointing out it's flaws - Shangri-La and Victoria are two good examples.


message 11: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
I read a good biography on The Kinks last year. Here's my review....

/review/show...


message 12: by Miss M (last edited Jan 31, 2014 10:23AM) (new)

Miss M | 68 comments Wow...those are some great lists...
Saw the Kinks in my local arena (RIP Capital Centre), some time after Low Budget came out...80/81?
Those were the days.

So...got a Kindle Fire HDX for Christmas and have become a total fangurl, hardly leaves my side. Long way round of saying - my five latest downloads:

1. Meet me in the morning. Everything but the girl
2. Uncertain smile. The the
3. A spy in the house of love. The db's
4. Clock strikes ten. Cheap trick
5. Atomic dog (extended version). George Clinton

No theme, just vagaries of the brain. ;)


message 13: by Miss M (new)

Miss M | 68 comments Nigeyb,
Your blog (very nice, BTW!) reminds me of another of my favorites:

Crying all the way to the chip shop



message 14: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
^ ^ Great selections Miss M. Thanks for blog love too. I'm enjoying the chip shop.


message 15: by Miss M (new)

Miss M | 68 comments I really like 'the tribes of Britain'




message 16: by David (new)

David | 1061 comments With a Little Help From My Friends - Joe Cocker
All Along The Watchtower - Jimi Hendrix
Everybody's Talkin - Nilsson
When Something Is Wrong With My Baby - Charlie Rich
I Want You - Fiona Apple


All songs where I think that the cover version listed is better than the original. THAT version of I Want You linked, with the writer himself playing guitar.

Have a good weekend, all.


message 17: by Miss M (new)

Miss M | 68 comments Now I have Nilsson in my head...i like it, thanks, Dave!
Enjoy your weekend. :)


message 18: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments Motorbikin' - Chris Spedding
You Win Again - Jerry Lee Lewis
The Last of The Teenage Idols - SAHB
Breathless - Jerry Lee Lewis
Destination - Barry Adamsom


message 19: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
^ Brilliant. Thanks Mark.

Are these last week's late? Or this week's early?

A couple of Jerry Lee's. Some good rocking at your place then?

I have just discovered SAHB and am loving what I've discovered so far.


message 20: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments I've pretty much been working non-stop for nearly three weeks, so the lines between weekdays and weekends have been completely blurred... sorry! Let's just make it this week's early, and have done with it.

Jerry Lee has always been my all-time favourite, but I've been listening to him to the exclusion of everyone else for the past few weeks. One cannot go far wrong with The Killer.

You're new to SAHB? I envy you all the discovery you have ahead of you... their stuff is pretty much uniformly brilliant, in my opinion. An old friend of mine sat me down in the mid-1980s for an introduction to the music of SAHB, as they were a MASSIVE influence on his own band, Killing Joke. I was mesmerized from the start, and have been a huge fan ever since.

SAHB is one of those incredibly rare instances where the visuals help to deepen ones appreciation of their music. I strongly recommend checking out some footage on youtube... they truly had the whole package working in total synch.


message 21: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
^ Thanks for that Mark. I must admit I am already mesmerised.

Your friends with a member of KJ? And SAHB were an influence? Extraordinary. I wouldn't have made the connection. Coincidentally, as you may well know, there's a new triple CD of Killing Joke In Dub which came out a week or so ago. I am blown away by it. Youth is a pretty amazing producer but he's excelled himself here. There's so much of it though but, so far, it's all brilliant if you like their sound. I love it - that first album is one of the all time greats, but I loved the poppier 80s stuff too, and on into the present day with the slightly more metally stuff.

I'm guessing you're all over Jerry Lee at The Star Club. Perhaps the greatest live album ever? Would certainly be in my top ten. Wonderful stuff.

SAHB wise, I've only properly listened to 'Framed" and "Next". Both superb. I'm really looking forward to working through the rest of it.

I'm sorry to hear about the work-centric nature of your life at the moment. I hope that eases up soon and you can get a bit more balance.

Thanks for another brilliant post.


message 22: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments Jerry Lee at The Star Club easily scoops up the prize in the Most-Incendiary-Live-Recording Stakes. I've never been a big fan of live albums, but that one makes for essential listening. I have no problem proclaiming it to be the best live album ever, which it certainly is, in my book. Sadly, two songs from the gig have been lost forever, with the version released on Bear Family Records [out of Germany] being the most complete version available.

Killing Joke? Paul, their drummer and founding member, is an old and dear friend of mine and, happy to say, one of my very favourite people in the world. They all grew up as fans of SAHB... I think their influence on Killing Joke comes through in the tension and, particularly in a live setting, the theatricality and drama.

I do have a copy of the new 'Dub' set, and can only agree with your assessment... it's quite good, and makes for a rewarding listen. I wasn't so keen on their last studio album, but the one prior, 'Absolute Dissent,' has some brilliant moments... particularly the track 'In Excelsis,' which I can never listen to just once! I don't know if you've caught them live since Paul returned to the fold, making it the original lineup, but if you haven't, you need to. They're absolutely incredible live, and would have no problem wiping the floorboards with bands a fraction of their age.

Back to SAHB, though, if I may... both 'Framed' and 'Next' are wonderful, and I can strongly recommend 'The Impossible Dream' and 'Tomorrow Belongs To Me.' Not a duff track on either, really. 'The Hot City Symphony' is an insanely brilliant bit of work!


message 23: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
^ Thanks again Mark. Solid gold. I always enjoying reading your musings and anecdotes.

I have the Bear Family version of Jerry Lee at The Star Club to get those extra tracks.

Inexplicably not only have I not seen Killing Joke since Paul returned, I've never ever seen them in the flesh. When they first emerged, whilst I loved the music, I was more interested in going to clubs than going to anything more than the occasional gig. I missed a lot of good stuff in the early 1980s - still there were compensations.

Your post inspired me to find out when they're playing in London next only to discover that Paul has "acute tendonitis" (or did back in June 2013). Poor bloke. I hope he's feeling better.

Anyway forthcoming gigs in Blackpool (Rebellion - which I should get along to one of these days) and Kettering. I'm already on a KJ mailing list so will keep an eye out for more shows. I need to have seen them once in my life.

I hear ya re: 'The Impossible Dream' and 'Tomorrow Belongs To Me' and will be diving in very soon. Watch this space.

Thanks, as ever, Mark.


message 24: by Nigeyb (last edited Feb 07, 2014 02:58AM) (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
It's Friiiiday.



Here's today's selection....



Have a wonderful weekend.


message 25: by Greg (new)

Greg | 159 comments Last week on the same day as the above post about the Kinks, before I read it, I was thinking, while reading H.V. Morton's In Search of London, and it happens every time reading HVM, it happened with In Search of England remember Nigeyb, we talked about what music that book inspires. Pink Floyd, Donovan etc. all random, well, I decided that of all the music to come out of London, The Kinks got the vibe and sense of place with London like no-one else. When I read the post above last week I thought it was spooky.
Great choices of music Val, Nigeyb, and every one. Nigeyb, I'll read your read your review of the Kinks biography.


message 26: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
^ Most spooky Greg.

Another coincidence, I am putting together a book/film/music set of choices for my real world book group and I have decided I will probably go with a London theme.

I've provisionally chosen "The Lowlife" by Alexander Baron, "London - The Modern Babylon" directed by Julien Temple, and then was mulling over the most London-centric music and concluded that The Kinks were probably the way to go. That said, I may yet go with Ian Dury and The Blockheads. Any other London musical suggestions?


message 27: by Greg (new)

Greg | 159 comments I suppose Dire Straits first album is an obvious suggestion. Maybe Procol Harum. I have an album from '83, titled Punk And Disorderly III - The Final Solution -. Songs include Kick Out The Tories by the Newtown Neurotics, Have You Got 10p? by The Ejected, Give Us A Future by One Way System.
All cracking good stuff.
I love Ian Dury and The Blockheads! Got a great double CD.
Also a suggestion, John Barry soundtrack themes.


message 28: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 111 comments Bother! I somehow managed to miss this thread yesterday - I'll catch up again next week.


message 29: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments Greg wrote: "...The Kinks were probably the way to go. That said, I may yet go with Ian Dury..."

The Kinks are fine, Dury even more fine, though my own vote'd be cast in the direction of either Max Wall or Bygraves.


message 30: by Nigeyb (last edited Feb 08, 2014 10:05AM) (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
^ Thanks Mark. A couple of intriguing choices there neither of which I actually really listened to beyond the odd song.

This is a bit of classic...



Your suggestions also reminded me of another classic London crooner who I can't believe I didn't think of before now. Who do I speak of? Why of course it's Mr Anthony Newley. This clip is well worth three minutes and 21 seconds of your lime...




message 31: by Greg (new)

Greg | 159 comments Mark wrote: "Greg wrote: "...The Kinks were probably the way to go. That said, I may yet go with Ian Dury..."

The Kinks are fine, Dury even more fine, though my own vote'd be cast in the direction of either Ma..."


I like that direction Mark. London is a broad canvas.
Matt Monro is a favourite. His version of For All We Know is the best I've heard. A beautiful 2005 film to see is Mrs. Pafrey at the Claremont, starring Joan Plowright and Rupert Friend, which has the song For All We Know, sung by Rupert Friend. The film is set in London. The film is adapted from Mrs. Palfrey at the Claremont.

Also, In another direction of music, with all the history of London, Amazing Blondel are wonderful. Their album Restoration is a gem.

Other suggestions, Acker Bilk, Joan Armatrading, John Martin, Steeleye Span.
There's the London Reggae scene too.


message 32: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
^ Thanks Greg - plenty of leads to follow up there and many of them new to me. Every day is a voyage of discover in this group. Splendid.


Greg wrote: "London is a broad canvas."

Nail. Head.

Basically all life is there so, to an extent, the city has co-opted every musical genre under the sun.

At the moment I think I'll probably go with Ian Dury because in addition to his amazing lyricism he frequently references London, and London characters.

One of many, many examples - Ian's bus driver's Lord's Prayer..

Our Farnham, who art in Hendon
Harrow be Thy name.
Thy Kingston come; thy Wimbledon,
In Erith as it is in Hendon.
Give us this day our daily Brent
And forgive us our Westminster
As we forgive those who Westminster against us.
And lead us not into Thames Ditton
But deliver us from Yeovil.
For Thine is the Kingston, the Purley and the Crawley,
For Esher and Esher.
Crouch End.


Genius.

And lest we forget, this is the man who bemoaned how, if he'd played his cards right...

I could be the ticket-man at Fulham Broadway station...

I also think he directly referenced London's music hall tradition, as well as looking a bit Dickensian, with a big side order of Max Wall (just like Johnny Rotten). Above all he has humour in spades. One of the quintessential popular music London artists. Probably the best fit for what I'm trying to achieve.

That said, I'm open to any other suggestions.

Off the back of this discussion I ended up watching Anthony Newley's "This Is Your Life' episode on YouTube from the early 1990s. Very emotional. Many of the participants now no longer around.

I've always meant to investigate Newley properly. Bowie always cites him as an early influence. 1967 "David Bowie" album owes a clear debt to Newley’s vaudevillian show tunes - and contains many Bowie tunes for which I've always had a soft spot.


message 33: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments I've got to admit, I'm riddled with intrigue for London's old and colourful Music Hall tradition, and the more I investigate it, the more it seems to be a matter of the music of people like Max Wall and Max Bygraves being firmly ingrained in much of the music to come out of London in their wake. Certainly, Dury and the Sex Pistols have publicly doffed their caps in Music Hall's direction, as have bands like Madness and The Kinks.

Hell, Ian Dury recorded a cover of Max Wall's brilliant 'England's Glory,' which, yeah, must surely boast THEE quintessential English lyric...


There are jewels in the crown of England's glory
And every jewel shines a thousand ways

Frankie Howerd, Noël Coward and garden gnomes
Frankie Vaughan, Kenneth Horne, Sherlock Holmes
Monty, Biggles and Old King Cole
In the pink or on the dole
Oliver Twist and Long John Silver
Captain Cook and Nelly Dean
Enid Blyton, Gilbert Harding
Malcolm Sargeant, Graham Greene (Graham Greene)

All the jewels in the crown of England's glory
Too numerous to mention, but a few
And every one could tell a different story
And show old England's glory something new

Nice bit of kipper and Jack the Ripper and Upton Park
Gracie, Cilla, Maxy Miller, Petula Clark
Winkles, Woodbines, Walnut Whips
Vera Lynn and Stafford Cripps
Lady Chatterley, Muffin the Mule
Winston Churchill, Robin Hood
Beatrix Potter, Baden-Powell
Beecham's powders, Yorkshire pud (Yorkshire pud)

With Billy Bunter, Jane Austen
Reg Hampton, George Formby
Billy Fury, Little Titch
Uncle Mac, Mr. Pastry and all
Uncle mac, Mr. Patry and all

allright england?
g�wan england
oh england

All the jewels in the crown of England's glory
Too numerous to mention, but a few
And every one could tell a different story
And show old England's glory something new

Somerset Maugham, Top Of The Form with the Boys' Brigade
Mortimer Wheeler, Christine Keeler and the Board of Trade
Henry Cooper, wakey wakey, England's labour
Standard Vanguard, spotted dick, England's workers
England's glory


message 34: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
Thanks Mark. You've sent me right back to that tune. I love it and haven't heard it for eons. I'm pretty sure Ian Dury wrote it, and then Max Wall did a cover of it. Either way it is a fantastic tune and yet another example of some top notch lyrics.


message 35: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments You're right, vice-versa, of course... I'm not yet fully awake!


message 36: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
^ Thanks again Mark. Have an enjoyable Sunday.


message 37: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments Greg wrote: "There's the London Reggae scene too."

Absolutely, Greg. Linton Kwesi Johnson is, in my own worthless opinion, an absolute giant of Herculean proportion... one of the very best. Interestingly, on a literary note, in 2002 LKJ became the second living poet, and the only black poet, to be published in the Penguin Modern Classics series.


message 38: by Greg (new)

Greg | 159 comments The English musical hall tradition style is there in The Beatles Honey Pie and Sgt. Peppers.

Nigeyb, if you're going with Ian Dury (great choice), and I was going to mention it earlier, I'm not sure how you'd tie it in to London or the Thames, but how could you not include 'Poo-Poo In The Prawn'. I defy you to listen to that and not collapse in laughter.


message 39: by Tosh (new)

Tosh | 19 comments Wow! A great conversation here. Quick (and very boring) question, is every one British here? And don't feel you have to answer right away! But as an American I am fascinated with the music hall world of England. I touch on it in my book, but I need to know a lot more. Mark, thanks for the mention of LKJ. I'll locate his book.


message 40: by Greg (new)

Greg | 159 comments Tosh, I'm Australian. Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II is Australia's Head of State, if that's not too weird for an American to understand.


message 41: by Nigeyb (last edited Feb 10, 2014 03:41AM) (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
Hi Tosh, Mark is our NYC correspondent, Miss M is somewhere in the USA, David is reprazentin' Aberdeen in Scotland, Sarah is in the UK, and I am on the south coast of England - a place called Brighton, where I amble past groups of battling Mods and Rockers most days. Greg, as you can see above, is our resident Australian, although there's another Aussie on here called Robert, but we're still waiting for his Friday musical selections.

I met LKJ a couple of years back. A thoroughly pleasant man. Very thoughtful and polite. He was speaking at an event I was working at. He's still got lots of interesting thoughts and is still writing poetry. This is my favourite LKJ moment...



...it absolutely captures the riots of the early 1980s... Brixton, Wood Green, Tottenham, Stoke Newington, Toxteth,..

I remember a friend inviting me to the Wood Green riot. He said he was after a TV and a camera. He was successful too. It seemed to catch the police completely unawares - despite every teenager in the area knowing it was going to happen up to 24 hours earlier.

Back to British Music Hall. Does anyone know a good book on the subject?

The Trial of Elizabeth Cree, or Dan Leno and the Limehouse Golem by Peter Ackroyd - which is an excellent London novel by the way, if a little grisly - has quite a bit on London music hall as a part of the overall narrative. A quick overview for anyone that's interested..

The year is 1880, the setting London's poor and dangerous Limehouse district, home to immigrants and criminals. A series of brutal murders has occurred, and, as Ackroyd leads us down London's dark streets, the sense of time and place becomes overwhelmingly immediate and real. We experience the sights and sounds of the English music halls, smell the smells of London slums, hear the hooves of horses on the cobblestone streets, and attend the trial of Elizabeth Cree, a woman accused of poisoning her husband but who may be the one person who knows the truth about the murders. The wonderfully rhythmic shifting of focus from trial to back alleys, where we come upon George Gissing, author of New Grub Street, and even Karl Marx, gives the story a tremendous depth and resonance beyond its page-turning thriller plot.


message 42: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 111 comments Nigeyb wrote: "Hi Tosh, Mark is our NYC correspondent, Miss M is somewhere in the USA, David is reprazentin' Aberdeen in Scotland, Sarah is in the UK, and I am on the south coast of England - a place called Brigh..."

We're quite a cosmopolitan bunch aren't we!


message 43: by Tosh (new)

Tosh | 19 comments Ain't that the truth!


message 44: by Greg (new)

Greg | 159 comments Truth. Reasons to be cheerful.


message 45: by Greg (new)

Greg | 159 comments Some old favourites.

The Rumour's 1978 album FROGS SPROUTS CLOGS AND KRAUTS.
includes great songs - Frozen Years, Emotional Traffic, Tired Of Waiting.

Phil Manzanera solo 1982 album, Primitive Guitars

Pete Townshend and Ronnie Lane 1977 album, Rough Mix

10cc 1975 album The Original Soundtrack.


message 46: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
Lovely stuff Greg. Do you still own them?


message 47: by Greg (new)

Greg | 159 comments Yes Nigeyb, I was playing Frogs Sprouts Clogs And Krauts today.
Phil Manzanera plays all instruments on Primitive Guitars. The track Criolo is fantastic.
Another band from the '80s, Karl Wallinger's band, World Party. Two great albums are 1. - PRIVATE REVOLUTION, inc. gems Making Love (To The World) and Ship Of Fools and All Come True. and I do mean Gems. and 2. - GOODBYE JUMBO with one of my favourite songs, Put The Message In The Box.
All this selection I've listed are English bands.


message 48: by Nigeyb (last edited Feb 11, 2014 03:02AM) (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
Thanks Greg. I was very fond of World Party - and indeed The Waterboys, who I saw play a wonderful concert in 2012.

Do you own these albums on vinyl? I only ask because, in my fevered imagination, you live in a remote spot in the middle of the outback, and I imagine it being so hot that vinyl might well warp.


message 49: by Greg (new)

Greg | 159 comments Yes Nigeyb, all these are on vinyl. No vinyl has melted yet. Rural but not quite the outback. Officially, in Australia the outback starts where you can't get a decent coffee. It's our summer now, it's the end of the cicadas (noisy insects in their thousands which happens every seven years) so I can hear music again.
I'm not on the grid, on solar. Living in the bush, I love playing The Pastoral Symphony powered by the sun.


message 50: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
^ Thanks Greg. I'm gratified to learn that my mental image is not too far wide of the mark.

The Pastoral Symphony? Powered by the sun?

What a fantastic detail. You Sir, are living the dream.


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